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	<title>Comments on: An Early Theropod Leaves an Impression on Scientists</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2009/03/an-early-theropod-leaves-an-impression-on-scientists/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2009/03/an-early-theropod-leaves-an-impression-on-scientists/</link>
	<description>Where Paleontology Meets Pop Culture</description>
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		<title>By: "Bird" Wrists Evolved Among Dinosaurs &#124; Dinosaur Tracking</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2009/03/an-early-theropod-leaves-an-impression-on-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-1668</link>
		<dc:creator>"Bird" Wrists Evolved Among Dinosaurs &#124; Dinosaur Tracking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=918#comment-1668</guid>
		<description>[...] are time and again shown with their hands in a palms-down position, something that would have been anatomically impossible (at least without moving the arms to which those wrists were attached to). This does not mean that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are time and again shown with their hands in a palms-down position, something that would have been anatomically impossible (at least without moving the arms to which those wrists were attached to). This does not mean that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Getting a Handle on Theropod Arms &#124; Dinosaur Tracking</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2009/03/an-early-theropod-leaves-an-impression-on-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-369</link>
		<dc:creator>Getting a Handle on Theropod Arms &#124; Dinosaur Tracking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 13:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=918#comment-369</guid>
		<description>[...] this week a new paper in the journal PLoS One reported a set of fossilized impressions that showed how theropod dinosaurs held their hands. Scientists were able to confirm that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this week a new paper in the journal PLoS One reported a set of fossilized impressions that showed how theropod dinosaurs held their hands. Scientists were able to confirm that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Stearns</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2009/03/an-early-theropod-leaves-an-impression-on-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-368</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Stearns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=918#comment-368</guid>
		<description>It does, thanks :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does, thanks <img src='http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jerry D. Harris</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2009/03/an-early-theropod-leaves-an-impression-on-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-367</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry D. Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=918#comment-367</guid>
		<description>Hi All -- As one of the paper&#039;s co-authors, I thought I&#039;d respond to these comments:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Are these the same prints that some interpreted as evidence of feathers for Dilophosaurus back before all the Yixian discoveries or are they new?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

These are new...well, they were discovered in 2004, but other than a quick mention in a couple of places, they had not yet been published.  The ones you&#039;re thinking of that had been attributed to a &lt;i&gt;Dilophosaurus&lt;/i&gt;-like animal, and that had been interpreted as possibly exhibiting &quot;protofeather&quot; impressions, are about the same age as these new tracks, but were found way out east -- they&#039;re from the Portland Formation (part of the Newark Supergroup) in Massachusetts.  The age and environment of the Portland Formation are similar to that of the Moenave Formation in which these tracks were found here in Utah, but the Massachusetts tracks don&#039;t have hand prints like ours do.  Ours also don&#039;t show anything about potential skin the way the Massachusetts tracks do (and those have been heavily debated, to the point where, presently, I think most paleontologists don&#039;t consider them &quot;protofeather&quot; impressions).

&lt;blockquote&gt;Just to clarify, this also means that they did not have any sort of “wrist” as well, correct?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, not quite -- they most certainly had a wrist, complete with wrist bones (though probably fewer than most mammals, like humans, have).  The ability to turn the hands either palms-up or palms-down, though, doesn&#039;t have anything to do with the wrist in humans and other mammals.  Instead, that ability comes directly from the lower arm bones -- the two (ulna and radius) between the elbow and wrist.  (The ulna is the bigger, thicker bone and the one that sticks out at the elbow end to make that bony lump in the elbow; the radius is the smaller, skinnier one.)  In humans and some other mammals, the elbow end of the radius has a little roller surface on it, and there&#039;s a corresponding surface on the elbow.  When this end of the radius rolls across this surface, the rest of the radius crosses over the ulna, and it is &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; motion that enables turning the hand either palms-up or palms-down -- you can see this in your own arms and hands: when you turn your hand palms-up, you are also rotating the lower arm so that the &quot;bottom&quot; of the arm is up when the palms are (and you can feel the movement just below the elbow if you gently use your other hand to feel this region while turning your arm palms-up and -down).  There are good pictures of this &lt;a href=&quot;http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/oxford/Oxford_Sports/0199210896.pronation.1.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/elbow/child_elbow_OCD/child_elbow_OCD_anatomy03.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, for two examples.  Theropod dinosaurs -- and most other vertebrates, actually, even ones that walk on all fours and have their hands more or less locked palms-down -- lack this ability.  Movement in the wrist is limited to the &quot;waving goodbye&quot; motion and a tiny bit of side-to-side motion in humans; in theropod dinosaur wrists (including birds), there seems to be more of the side-to-side motion and less of the &quot;waving goodbye&quot; motion.

I hope this all helps!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi All &#8212; As one of the paper&#8217;s co-authors, I thought I&#8217;d respond to these comments:</p>
<blockquote><p>Are these the same prints that some interpreted as evidence of feathers for Dilophosaurus back before all the Yixian discoveries or are they new?</p></blockquote>
<p>These are new&#8230;well, they were discovered in 2004, but other than a quick mention in a couple of places, they had not yet been published.  The ones you&#8217;re thinking of that had been attributed to a <i>Dilophosaurus</i>-like animal, and that had been interpreted as possibly exhibiting &#8220;protofeather&#8221; impressions, are about the same age as these new tracks, but were found way out east &#8212; they&#8217;re from the Portland Formation (part of the Newark Supergroup) in Massachusetts.  The age and environment of the Portland Formation are similar to that of the Moenave Formation in which these tracks were found here in Utah, but the Massachusetts tracks don&#8217;t have hand prints like ours do.  Ours also don&#8217;t show anything about potential skin the way the Massachusetts tracks do (and those have been heavily debated, to the point where, presently, I think most paleontologists don&#8217;t consider them &#8220;protofeather&#8221; impressions).</p>
<blockquote><p>Just to clarify, this also means that they did not have any sort of “wrist” as well, correct?</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, not quite &#8212; they most certainly had a wrist, complete with wrist bones (though probably fewer than most mammals, like humans, have).  The ability to turn the hands either palms-up or palms-down, though, doesn&#8217;t have anything to do with the wrist in humans and other mammals.  Instead, that ability comes directly from the lower arm bones &#8212; the two (ulna and radius) between the elbow and wrist.  (The ulna is the bigger, thicker bone and the one that sticks out at the elbow end to make that bony lump in the elbow; the radius is the smaller, skinnier one.)  In humans and some other mammals, the elbow end of the radius has a little roller surface on it, and there&#8217;s a corresponding surface on the elbow.  When this end of the radius rolls across this surface, the rest of the radius crosses over the ulna, and it is <i>this</i> motion that enables turning the hand either palms-up or palms-down &#8212; you can see this in your own arms and hands: when you turn your hand palms-up, you are also rotating the lower arm so that the &#8220;bottom&#8221; of the arm is up when the palms are (and you can feel the movement just below the elbow if you gently use your other hand to feel this region while turning your arm palms-up and -down).  There are good pictures of this <a href="http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/oxford/Oxford_Sports/0199210896.pronation.1.jpg" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/elbow/child_elbow_OCD/child_elbow_OCD_anatomy03.jpg" rel="nofollow">here</a>, for two examples.  Theropod dinosaurs &#8212; and most other vertebrates, actually, even ones that walk on all fours and have their hands more or less locked palms-down &#8212; lack this ability.  Movement in the wrist is limited to the &#8220;waving goodbye&#8221; motion and a tiny bit of side-to-side motion in humans; in theropod dinosaur wrists (including birds), there seems to be more of the side-to-side motion and less of the &#8220;waving goodbye&#8221; motion.</p>
<p>I hope this all helps!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Stearns</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2009/03/an-early-theropod-leaves-an-impression-on-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-366</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Stearns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=918#comment-366</guid>
		<description>Just to clarify, this also means that they did not have any sort of &quot;wrist&quot; as well, correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify, this also means that they did not have any sort of &#8220;wrist&#8221; as well, correct?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Craven</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2009/03/an-early-theropod-leaves-an-impression-on-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-365</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Craven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=918#comment-365</guid>
		<description>Are these the same prints that some interpreted as evidence of feathers for Dilophosaurus back before all the Yixian discoveries or are they new?

I mean, new in a very limited sense of the word...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are these the same prints that some interpreted as evidence of feathers for Dilophosaurus back before all the Yixian discoveries or are they new?</p>
<p>I mean, new in a very limited sense of the word&#8230;</p>
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