“Since then, the use of ‘raptor’ for dromaeosaur has been most widely promoted by a scientist who maintains that we should dumb-down the names used for fossil animals whenever possible. Are you happy with this? If so, consider the argument here… http://blog.hmns.org/2012/06/on-happy-puppies-bugs-and-honorary-dinos-a-statement-by-dr-robert-t-bakker/ … in which it is apparently proposed that we should use terms like ‘dino-bugs’ for trilobites.”

W/all due respect, I have to disagree w/you about 2 things in particular.

1stly, it isn’t really fair to single out Bakker for maintaining “that we should dumb-down the names used for fossil animals whenever possible”, given that other equally-good pros do more-or-less the same thing (E.g. Holtz in his dino encyclopedia: http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/dinoappendix/#chaps ).

2ndly, Bakker didn’t really propose “that we should use terms like ‘dino-bugs’ for trilobites” so much as explain why he & his colleagues do so.

My point is that there’s nothing wrong w/pros using nicknames for fossil animals so long as they’re easy-to-remember & used in association w/the real names, which Bakker does (E.g. “Our superb skeleton of an Early Permian lake amphibian is labeled as an Early Permian archegosaurid. But it also goes by the nickname bestowed by the collection-management crew when the crate was opened — “Happy Puppy.””).

Dromaeosaurs have a perfectly good, perfectly vernacular name that is not difficult to say, and not unfamiliar to anyone who’s ever opened a book on dinosaurs. It is ‘dromaeosaurs’.

Darren

From my experience ‘raptor’ now has stronger connotations to refer to medium sized carnivorous dinosaur than it does for a mixed group of birds, which as someone above pointed out wasn’t particularly useful anyway. I blame this on all the Velociraptor memes and Jurassic Park’s legacy.

Oh and I spoke to worms, starfish, sea cucumbers, bugs, silverfish, jellyfish, flying lemurs, killer whales, seahorses, muskoxen, rabbitfish, kangaroo rats, ladybirds and Irish elks and they don’t see why you are trifling over such a minor group of animals.

Additionally, saying that using the name “raptors” for Velociraptor and kin is like “would be like deciding to call sauropods ‘elephants’ or something” is completely misleading. In that case, the two groups are very distantly related from one another, and most of their adaptations for size are convergent. Plus there are big morphological differences between the two, like the presence/absence of a trunk, long tail, extensive pneumatization, long neck, huge grinding molars, etc. There isn’t as much difference between dromaeosaurs and birds of prey in contrast, as a lot of their similar adaptations (e.g. feathers) are homologous.

The term “raptor” also helps to get across the bird-like nature of these animals. The modern “raptors” are predatory birds with big talons. Prehistoric “raptors” are bird-like predators with big talons. And if you want to get into terminology, the greek root where raptor comes from, raptor means plunderer, robber, or rapist. That word seems more applicable to dromaeosaurs, which one could easily picture raiding nests or taking down juvenile dinosaurs, than most modern birds of prey who usually go after individuals rodents and other small prey.

Finally, the term “raptor” is short, memorable, and immediately familiar to the lay person, something the names of most dinosaur taxa can’t say for themselves. I don’t really care if someone prefers using the term “raptor” or “dromaeosaur”, but where does someone get off dictating what common name someone uses to describe an animal. It comes off as simply complaining, given that the difference in name means absolutely nothing about the phylogeny of the animal (as opposed to referring to a basal tyrannosauroid as a tyrannosaurid, for example), and gives laypeople in general the idea that we are simply changing the rules of paleontology and trying to make people use the more clunky names in order to trip them up, like some kind of paleo-hipster.

And some day, some mischievous palaeontologist could formally name a non-avian dinosaur clade “Raptors” (perhaps the Microraptor + Velociraptor node?). I think that would be quite amusing.

Am I the only person who thinks “bird of prey” is a silly phrase? You’d never say “mammal of prey” or “dinosaur of prey” or “pseudosuchian of prey”.

Brian wrote in the post: You say “raptor,” and your audience immediately has a general image of what sort of dinosaur you’re talking about.

Yes, we know what those calling a “raptor” are talking about: bunny-handed, scaly, varanid-faced movie monsters… That’s what “raptor” means form most of those using the name outside extant ornithological discussions. Since we know that a dromaeosaurid is not what the term “raptor” means form most of those using that name, I strongly agree with Darren’s words.

Yes, we know what those calling a “raptor” are talking about: bunny-handed, scaly, varanid-faced movie monsters… That’s what “raptor” means form most of those using the name outside extant ornithological discussions. Since we know that a dromaeosaurid is not what the term “raptor” means form most of those using that name, I strongly agree with Darren’s words.

I say let deinonychosauria have the term “‘raptor,” and let’s find some similarly easy to pronounce names for other dinosaurian clades. Just because these big, long, complicated jumbles of letters make perfect sense to us doesn’t mean they work for the far & vast majority of everyone else, and science’s relationship with the general public needs every boost it can get these days. Even if it is something as simple as simpler informal names for animals that currently don’t have them.

To be fair, 1 could argue that “raptor” was already muddied b-4 JP in that it consisted of several distantly-related groups (Specifically, strigiforms, falconids & accipitrids). Just to be safe, though, I always use “raptor” in association w/”dromaeosaur” or “deinonychosaur” (E.g. “It’s a kind of dromaeosaur, or raptor dinosaur”).

Raptor in English means bird of prey, but the raptor in Velociraptor is not English, is Latin.

In Latin raptor means plunderer, thief, robber, or even rapist and deserter/drifter/stray person.

When raptor is used for naming a dinosaur, is used as a Latin word, with its meaning, that has nothing to do with birds.

Valerio

… but the question remains: what if you’re talking about eagle, hawk, owly-type dinosaurs? The two gentlemen above demonstrate that the term’s already well-muddied among the non-avians, and I think “But see – they’re all dinosaurs anyway!” is likely to earn you a quiet stare (at best) out there in the world.

That said, I completely agree with this:

“Almost twenty years after Jurassic Park debuted, it’s a little late to put “raptor” back in the cage.”

True. But then you also have things like Ozraptor, Oviraptor, Megaraptor, Condorraptor – there’s enough raptor-named dinosaurs that aren’t dromaeosaurs, or were even in the Maniraptora. So it’s simply not a simple subset of dinosaurs with this name and thus I’m with Darren. It might be catchy, but it’s not clear or unambiguous and that for me makes it more of a problem than a boon.