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	<title>Comments on: Triceratops Wasn&#8217;t Toxic</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/</link>
	<description>Where Paleontology Meets Pop Culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2012 16:48:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Aaron Doyle</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7129</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7129</guid>
		<description>Seems I&#039;m also partly responsible considering my unothodox reconstuction (which was included in the article without credit or my consent). To be fair it was something I did it for myself in my spare time and I never intended for it to make the rounds as it has.  I literally posted it in two relatively small art forums and somehow it&#039;s popping up everywhere.  I wanted to represent how weird dinosaurs could be, and all I had were poor cell phone cam photos of the skin to work with at the time.  I never speculated anything weird like venom glands though.  I&#039;m actually kind of ashamed of it due to some glaring anatomical innaccuracies.  I have since refined my image to fix some errors and reflect the much better skin reference out there now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/battle-brak/Dinosaurs/TrikeVer2.jpg

I&#039;ll probably put some form of quills on him down the line, but I wanted to keep speculation to a minimum on this version.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems I&#8217;m also partly responsible considering my unothodox reconstuction (which was included in the article without credit or my consent). To be fair it was something I did it for myself in my spare time and I never intended for it to make the rounds as it has.  I literally posted it in two relatively small art forums and somehow it&#8217;s popping up everywhere.  I wanted to represent how weird dinosaurs could be, and all I had were poor cell phone cam photos of the skin to work with at the time.  I never speculated anything weird like venom glands though.  I&#8217;m actually kind of ashamed of it due to some glaring anatomical innaccuracies.  I have since refined my image to fix some errors and reflect the much better skin reference out there now.</p>
<p><a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/battle-brak/Dinosaurs/TrikeVer2.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/battle-brak/Dinosaurs/TrikeVer2.jpg</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ll probably put some form of quills on him down the line, but I wanted to keep speculation to a minimum on this version.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Hopp</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7092</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hopp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7092</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s not forget the Polish-Mongolian Expedition&#039;s prized &quot;fighting dinosaurs&quot; fossil, in which a protoceratops has clearly bitten a velociraptor fatally. In return for the favor, the velociraptor demonstrated foot-claw killing on the protoceratops. Then both conveniently expired and got fossilized. Now, hold on a minute before the speculations begin: did proto have a venomous bite? Did veloci have a venomous claw? It seems to me that either one could kill without the need for poison. Bloodletting was sufficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not forget the Polish-Mongolian Expedition&#8217;s prized &#8220;fighting dinosaurs&#8221; fossil, in which a protoceratops has clearly bitten a velociraptor fatally. In return for the favor, the velociraptor demonstrated foot-claw killing on the protoceratops. Then both conveniently expired and got fossilized. Now, hold on a minute before the speculations begin: did proto have a venomous bite? Did veloci have a venomous claw? It seems to me that either one could kill without the need for poison. Bloodletting was sufficient.</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Diaz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7089</link>
		<dc:creator>Herman Diaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 22:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7089</guid>
		<description>@Anonymous

&quot;I can’t begin to tell you how bummed I was that the “wooly tyrannosaur” they mentioned did not exist.&quot;

To be fair, we now know that it did exist in the form of Yutyrannus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anonymous</p>
<p>&#8220;I can’t begin to tell you how bummed I was that the “wooly tyrannosaur” they mentioned did not exist.&#8221;</p>
<p>To be fair, we now know that it did exist in the form of Yutyrannus.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7084</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7084</guid>
		<description>@Jaime

&quot;Predatory behavior in entelodonts, large pig-like artiodactyles, is not well-documented, but implied bone middens of some taxa are, bones covered as they are in tooth marks that can be interpreted beyond merely scavenging. So, it’s not implausible, but the dental morphology itself isn’t extremely useful to describe these things.&quot;

Entelodonts have really weird skulls compared to pigs/peccaries. The premolars are triangular and almost reminiscent of early whale teeth, and are often worn solely at their tips. Supposedly there is also a trackway documenting what may be an entelodont/early rhino chase, but I am unaware if this has ever been published. There&#039;s actually a lot of information on entelodont predatory behaviors out there, from the trackways to the bone middens you mentioned and more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jaime</p>
<p>&#8220;Predatory behavior in entelodonts, large pig-like artiodactyles, is not well-documented, but implied bone middens of some taxa are, bones covered as they are in tooth marks that can be interpreted beyond merely scavenging. So, it’s not implausible, but the dental morphology itself isn’t extremely useful to describe these things.&#8221;</p>
<p>Entelodonts have really weird skulls compared to pigs/peccaries. The premolars are triangular and almost reminiscent of early whale teeth, and are often worn solely at their tips. Supposedly there is also a trackway documenting what may be an entelodont/early rhino chase, but I am unaware if this has ever been published. There&#8217;s actually a lot of information on entelodont predatory behaviors out there, from the trackways to the bone middens you mentioned and more.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason S.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7082</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2012 18:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7082</guid>
		<description>The idea of ceratopsian &quot;poison-glands&quot; is a fanciful speculation from the book &quot;A Field Guide to Dinosaurs&quot; by Henry Lee and Luis V. Rey. In the book, the tips of Psittacosaurus quills contain &quot;small reservoirs of venom which explode on contact&quot;; the quills attach to the mouths of predators like porcupine spines, and cause painful side effects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea of ceratopsian &#8220;poison-glands&#8221; is a fanciful speculation from the book &#8220;A Field Guide to Dinosaurs&#8221; by Henry Lee and Luis V. Rey. In the book, the tips of Psittacosaurus quills contain &#8220;small reservoirs of venom which explode on contact&#8221;; the quills attach to the mouths of predators like porcupine spines, and cause painful side effects.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7080</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2012 02:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7080</guid>
		<description>It may also be a result of Luis Rey and Henry Gee&#039;s Field Guide to Dinosaurs book. In that book, the authors try to present the Mesozoic in the form of a field guide, including all the interesting behavior that you see in living animals but don&#039;t necessarily see in extinct forms (parasitism, parthenogenesis, etc.). They mention that the book is speculative at the beginning, but this is very easy to overlook. I can&#039;t begin to tell you how bummed I was that the &quot;wooly tyrannosaur&quot; they mentioned did not exist.

Anyway, one of the &quot;added details&quot; they presented in the book was that the quills of Psittacosaurus were venomous, and so someone could have extrapolated this &quot;phylogenetic information&quot; to Triceratops based on the possible presence of quills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may also be a result of Luis Rey and Henry Gee&#8217;s Field Guide to Dinosaurs book. In that book, the authors try to present the Mesozoic in the form of a field guide, including all the interesting behavior that you see in living animals but don&#8217;t necessarily see in extinct forms (parasitism, parthenogenesis, etc.). They mention that the book is speculative at the beginning, but this is very easy to overlook. I can&#8217;t begin to tell you how bummed I was that the &#8220;wooly tyrannosaur&#8221; they mentioned did not exist.</p>
<p>Anyway, one of the &#8220;added details&#8221; they presented in the book was that the quills of Psittacosaurus were venomous, and so someone could have extrapolated this &#8220;phylogenetic information&#8221; to Triceratops based on the possible presence of quills.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7079</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 23:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7079</guid>
		<description>I think this may be partially my fault. Way back when the Triceratops with skin impressions was first discovered, I asked Dr. Michael Ryan at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History whether or not he thought this discovery was legit. He replied that the large scales were more likely remnants of poison glands or something like that rather than quills, since quills were restricted to coelurosaurian theropods (this was before the diversity of feathered dinosaurs, and ESPECIALLY integument-covered ornithischians like Psittacosaurus and Tianyulong) were well known. Not sure what Dr. Ryan thinks of this now, but I passed the information along to a couple of other people when they brought up the Houston specimen, and it must have spread from there. Sigh, another stupid paleo-meme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this may be partially my fault. Way back when the Triceratops with skin impressions was first discovered, I asked Dr. Michael Ryan at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History whether or not he thought this discovery was legit. He replied that the large scales were more likely remnants of poison glands or something like that rather than quills, since quills were restricted to coelurosaurian theropods (this was before the diversity of feathered dinosaurs, and ESPECIALLY integument-covered ornithischians like Psittacosaurus and Tianyulong) were well known. Not sure what Dr. Ryan thinks of this now, but I passed the information along to a couple of other people when they brought up the Houston specimen, and it must have spread from there. Sigh, another stupid paleo-meme.</p>
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		<title>By: albertonykus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7078</link>
		<dc:creator>albertonykus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 23:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7078</guid>
		<description>I suspect this may have been the result of someone taking the intentionally speculative book &lt;i&gt;A Field Guide to Dinosaurs&lt;/i&gt; (by Henry Gee and Luis Rey) too seriously. Said book describes the bristles of &lt;i&gt;Psittacosaurus&lt;/i&gt; as being poisonous, but this is completely fictitious and the book itself says as much.

Incidentally, the idea that &lt;i&gt;Triceratops&lt;/i&gt; had crocodilian-like belly scales is also based on rumors of the well-preserved &lt;i&gt;Triceratops&lt;/i&gt; skin at the HMNS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect this may have been the result of someone taking the intentionally speculative book <i>A Field Guide to Dinosaurs</i> (by Henry Gee and Luis Rey) too seriously. Said book describes the bristles of <i>Psittacosaurus</i> as being poisonous, but this is completely fictitious and the book itself says as much.</p>
<p>Incidentally, the idea that <i>Triceratops</i> had crocodilian-like belly scales is also based on rumors of the well-preserved <i>Triceratops</i> skin at the HMNS.</p>
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		<title>By: TyB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7076</link>
		<dc:creator>TyB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 20:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7076</guid>
		<description>* That would be Dinosaur Mailing List. Sorry bout that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>* That would be Dinosaur Mailing List. Sorry bout that.</p>
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		<title>By: TyB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7075</link>
		<dc:creator>TyB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 20:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7075</guid>
		<description>Hi, Brian.

I am the one who wrote that list under the name of TyB (that was some time ago, tho!). I apologize for any confusion that my list may have caused. 

The info on Triceratops was given to me by a member of the Dinosaur Mail Listing whose name, I believe, was Mike, but I can´t remember his last name. We kept correspondence for a while, and he mentioned that skin impressions of Triceratops had been found and that they showed this series of strange nipple-shaped bumps of which no one knew the function. The poison-gland thing was just one of many possibilities he mentioned, each one as unlikely as the other; I apologize if the list made it sound as if it was proven fact or as if the poison idea was more likely than the others. He too was the one who mentioned the gator-like scales on the belly of which I haven´t heard anything ever since. 

There were other things he told me about Triceratops but some of them seem to have been incorrect, so it may be that the other info he gave me wasn´t right either. Problem with the internet is that anyone can pose as an expert. All I tried to do with the list was to share new discoveries that excited me- and what I wrote was what I believed to be true at the time.

Best regards!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Brian.</p>
<p>I am the one who wrote that list under the name of TyB (that was some time ago, tho!). I apologize for any confusion that my list may have caused. </p>
<p>The info on Triceratops was given to me by a member of the Dinosaur Mail Listing whose name, I believe, was Mike, but I can´t remember his last name. We kept correspondence for a while, and he mentioned that skin impressions of Triceratops had been found and that they showed this series of strange nipple-shaped bumps of which no one knew the function. The poison-gland thing was just one of many possibilities he mentioned, each one as unlikely as the other; I apologize if the list made it sound as if it was proven fact or as if the poison idea was more likely than the others. He too was the one who mentioned the gator-like scales on the belly of which I haven´t heard anything ever since. </p>
<p>There were other things he told me about Triceratops but some of them seem to have been incorrect, so it may be that the other info he gave me wasn´t right either. Problem with the internet is that anyone can pose as an expert. All I tried to do with the list was to share new discoveries that excited me- and what I wrote was what I believed to be true at the time.</p>
<p>Best regards!</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry D. Harris</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7073</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry D. Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 19:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7073</guid>
		<description>http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5729.0

and one of the comments at:

http://blog.hmns.org/2012/05/introducing-lane-a-mummified-triceratops-with-a-new-address-at-5555-hermann-park-dr/

Pics at: http://www.childrensmuseum.org/blog/family-programs/day-5-digging-the-black-hills-institute

The blogger sounds like s/he grossly over-interpreted what little had already been written...which is, of course, how lots of dinosaur misinformation get started!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5729.0" rel="nofollow">http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5729.0</a></p>
<p>and one of the comments at:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.hmns.org/2012/05/introducing-lane-a-mummified-triceratops-with-a-new-address-at-5555-hermann-park-dr/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.hmns.org/2012/05/introducing-lane-a-mummified-triceratops-with-a-new-address-at-5555-hermann-park-dr/</a></p>
<p>Pics at: <a href="http://www.childrensmuseum.org/blog/family-programs/day-5-digging-the-black-hills-institute" rel="nofollow">http://www.childrensmuseum.org/blog/family-programs/day-5-digging-the-black-hills-institute</a></p>
<p>The blogger sounds like s/he grossly over-interpreted what little had already been written&#8230;which is, of course, how lots of dinosaur misinformation get started!</p>
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		<title>By: Mettiina</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7072</link>
		<dc:creator>Mettiina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 19:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7072</guid>
		<description>Now that I re-read your post I realized you were well aware of the Triceratops skin and that it&#039;s already on show for public. I guess I&#039;m not at my brightest today. Don&#039;t do hypothyroidism kids. It gives you the dumb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that I re-read your post I realized you were well aware of the Triceratops skin and that it&#8217;s already on show for public. I guess I&#8217;m not at my brightest today. Don&#8217;t do hypothyroidism kids. It gives you the dumb.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Larson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7071</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Larson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 18:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7071</guid>
		<description>The Triceratops on exhibit at HMNS, LANE, was preserved with fossil skin. There are &quot;nipple&quot; like structures evenly spaced across the large sections of skin that were preserved, in situ, across the flank of the animal. No skin was found that could be directly related to the tail of the animal to be able to even hypothesize (with physical evidence) that the tail would have been bristled. At least one piece of skin found with LANE has been subjected to surface X-RAYs, the result of which shows no indication of any sort of vascular system which would supply any sort of a toxin to quills or quill like structures. The paleontologists who have done the work on LANE do plan to publish on the skin, but there is still more research to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Triceratops on exhibit at HMNS, LANE, was preserved with fossil skin. There are &#8220;nipple&#8221; like structures evenly spaced across the large sections of skin that were preserved, in situ, across the flank of the animal. No skin was found that could be directly related to the tail of the animal to be able to even hypothesize (with physical evidence) that the tail would have been bristled. At least one piece of skin found with LANE has been subjected to surface X-RAYs, the result of which shows no indication of any sort of vascular system which would supply any sort of a toxin to quills or quill like structures. The paleontologists who have done the work on LANE do plan to publish on the skin, but there is still more research to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Mettiina</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7070</link>
		<dc:creator>Mettiina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7070</guid>
		<description>From what I&#039;ve heard from a friend who has actually seen photos of the specimen, the mummified Triceratops nicknamed &quot;Lane&quot; (the same one you mention) has skin impressions just as described, including something resembling large quills broken at the base. No poison glands though!

This is all second-hand information, of course, but I have no reason to doubt said friend. I don&#039;t think anything about the skin impressions has been published so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I&#8217;ve heard from a friend who has actually seen photos of the specimen, the mummified Triceratops nicknamed &#8220;Lane&#8221; (the same one you mention) has skin impressions just as described, including something resembling large quills broken at the base. No poison glands though!</p>
<p>This is all second-hand information, of course, but I have no reason to doubt said friend. I don&#8217;t think anything about the skin impressions has been published so far.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/2012/09/triceratops-wasnt-toxic/comment-page-1/#comment-7069</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/?p=8531#comment-7069</guid>
		<description>My avian dinosaurs at home certainly enjoy the chicken meat we occasionally give them, even though they&#039;re primarily herbivorous. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My avian dinosaurs at home certainly enjoy the chicken meat we occasionally give them, even though they&#8217;re primarily herbivorous. <img src='http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/dinosaur/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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